Göran Larsson

One day to go before LEMB turns silent although Peter has announced it will remain open for visits why all information will still be accessible. Thank you Peter for letting it be open. As I have 6.000+ posts here it would honestly be sad to see it all disappear together with the collective effort of all other members. Now more than 100.000 posts will stand as a testimony to the many who contributed and a valuable source of information. I initially posted at flight Sim forums before I found LEMB. I didn’t like some other forums with a less good moderation and where personal assaults and mudslinging was common. LEMB gave a serious impression and posters kept to the subject entering good information with their posts. I wasn’t disappointed. In fact I’ve spent more time here than I first imagined I would. I also became Moderator for a while. I have realized how much effort it takes to make a forum like this to tick over and run smoothly. It is a massive undertaking and Peter deserves a lot of praise for his effort in keeping it running for so many years. To me it has been, and still is, the best Luftwaffe forum and it is sad to see it close. I can on the other hand understand Peter who has decided to shift his focus to something else, as his untold hours spent keeping the forum going hasn’t always been generating the response one could expect. Perhaps typical to forums of this type that a few die-hards put in the bulk of posts while others contribute on a lesser scale or not at all. This does in my opinion only reflect the differences in level of interest, ability to contribute and time available for individual members. In this respect LEMB was no different from other forums. What was different was the forum’s ability to upload photos and documents. This enabled a growing and very valuable eBay photo posting section. Peter shall have a big thank you for the huge effort put in here. It generated many new and very interesting finds which greatly increased the knowledge about Luftwaffe aircraft and their emblems and markings. A great contribution to Luftwaffe research! Thank you Peter for your sterling effort with LEMB and wishing you success with what you will undertake in the future! Göran

I'll give my full support to the new site when it is up and running

Thank you very much Sidney It seems like neither 12./JG5 nor 16./JG5 existed at VE day. Reading through Brekken & Åkra it stands out that the unit renaming and reorganizations are difficult to bone out completely. A lot of earlier info on JG5 towards the end of WW2 is also not longer seen as valid. By the time of publication Brekken & Åkra writes (p.110) that Cato Guhnfeldt is to release a book on the Herdla Fw190s flown by the two units based there, about which there are several earlier published errors to clear up. I haven’t seen it announced from any publisher yet but I am for sure looking very much forward to seeing it being published. Brekken & Åkra on p.128 interestingly has it that in August 1944 12./JG5 became 15./JG5 when expanding to four Staffeln in the Gruppe. 15./JG5 flew Bf109G-14s and had black numbers with white outline. The WNr.-Listing of the Fw190s remaining with the two units 5./JG5 and 9./JG5 (leaving the Stab II./JG5 aside for a while), which you have linked to, is a way of starting where it ended at VE Day. Out of the two units I have got the impression that 9./JG5 used white numbers why the most likely candidate would then be found among the 5./JG5 Fw190A-8s. The same authors on p.116 claim WNr.732197. listed as a 9./JG5 aircraft in the linked listing of aircraft at Herdla 10.08.45, being ‘White 10’ which confirms the theory of white colour = 9.Staffel. Brekken & Åkra on page 115 has a photo of a wrecked Herdla Fw190A taken during the destruction of the aircraft after the war ended and it is clearly showing a ‘Blue 1’ as well as the RV band in yellow and black. Was it then the 5.Staffel at Herdla using blue numbers at the end in May 1945? Perhaps the most likely alternative after all Cheers, Goran Ref. Luftwaffe Fighters and Fighter-Bombers over the Far North, A.Brekken & K. Åkra, Classic, 2008, ISBN 978 1 903223 90 1

Bf109 #2 here is unusual. A small number '5' followed by a coloured letter 'V' aft of the fuselage cross. The white band indicates the MTO. Any other photos of this Bf109G? Here is a cropped and enlarged detail from the eBay photo:

Fw190 #2 Hi Sidney. I doubt the aircraft belonged to 16./JG5. The reason is that I believe they had converted to Bf109G-14 at the end of the war. Brekken & Åkra page 129 write that the entire IV.Gruppe had been completely equipped with the Bf109 already by early January 1945. The RV band seen here on the Fw190A seen behind 'Blue 12' was not applied until earliest in March 1945. The aircraft are seen covered with protection as if stored in the open, why the photo might even have been taken after the VE day. It can be discerned from this eBay photo that the prop spinners are decorated in the same way as can be seen on a photo of a (probably) Fw190A-8 'Blue 12' of 12./JG5 on page 113 in Brekken & Åkra: A blue spiral on white. Ref. Luftwaffe Fighters and Fighter-Bombers over the Far North, A.Brekken & K. Åkra, Classic, 2008, ISBN 978 1 903223 90 1 Adding the eBay photo here (Fw190 #2) for posterity: Goran

Fw190 #2 Philippe, I believe it is 'Blue 12' of 12./JG5 and possibly taken at Herdla, Norway. The tail band would be Yellow/Black. The wooden planking; Style of, and the blue colour with white outlines, of numerals; The number '12' repeated in black on the landing gear cover: Tail band with some probability being yellow/black and the view in the background leads me to believe it is a Fw190A-8 12./JG5 aircraft on a photo taken towards the end of the war, perhaps as late as April or May 1945 as the RV band was only applied very late on the Fw190s of the unit. See for more info also: Luftwaffe Fighters and Fighter-Bombers over the Far North, A.Brekken & K. Åkra, Classic, 2008, ISBN 978 1 903223 90 1 Cheers Goran

Fw189s for sure!

Paul Nash, see source in post #2, has it as 5.Staffel for what it is worth In the book 'Battle and Britain Then and Now' (Eight impression 2006) it is mentioned as 2.Staffel. Two photos on p.560

Thanks Sidney. I followed your track and the a/c was according to source #1 below a Bf109E-1 WNr.3367 and apparently shot down by P.O. J.McClintock's Hurricane of 615Sq and crash landed 12.45, August 12, at Selemston, near Berwick. Source #1 Paul Nash, Beachy Head! Angels 20, The Battle of Britain around Eastbourne over the summer of 1940, CPI Antony Rowe, 2008, ISBN 978-0-9559444-1-3 Goran

I agree with Chris that the Staffel code W for a 12th Staffel is worth noting. Not that many 12th Staffeln operating Ju88s in the MTO with similar camo I suppose. Following the guidelines the W ought to be yellow which I also find possible in this case when comparing to the contrast of the tail band which most probably is white. LG1 had a 12(Erg)Staffel which used W code. The unit being active in North Africa in 1942 and then transferring to Sicily in early 1943. It is nteresting to note that IV./LG1 was involved in training Italian crews at Wiener Neustadt in the first half of 1943. After having its base at Salonika-Sedes bombed to pieces by B-24s the unit relocated to Wiener Neustadt in June 1943. As the environment seen on the photo in post #1 to me looks like an airfield with a large fire extinguisher at hand and black men around, it might well be that this is not a front line airfield. Perhaps linked to the units relocation to Wiener Neustadt? There appears to be very few photos of 12./LG1 Ju88s to compare with but I hold this unit as hot candidate

Hi Chris, Hmmm......I doubt the tail band is yellow when comparing with the white area in the fuselage cross. Br/Gran

Clint, You can find similar camouflage with LG1 in Peter Taghorn, Die Geschichte des Lehrgescwaders 1, Band 2 1942-1945. Below is an example from page162 of L1+DK, taken 7. Dec 1941: It is perhaps a LG1 machine in post #1 after all, but by the time the camouflage as per above was used I've only found the unit code 'L1' in large letters on the aircraft. Goran

Hi Clint, You are perhaps thinking of this one Source: expired Delcampe auction Nov 2010 Cheers Goran

Hello Guys, I went through Taghorn's LG1 volumes without finding a similar aircraft. LG1 did use the letter 'W' with it's 12th Staffel in late summer/autumn of 1942 but did not introduce the small size unit code 'L1' on their aircraft until much later. I don't find the camouflage typical LG1 when comparing with other photos. I believe Christian is right in that there is a small unit code in front of the fuselage cross as marked below: Could it be a partly painted over 7A instead (Aufkl.Gr.121)? Difficult to tell .......I wouldn't rule out 'L1' and hence LG1 though. Could be a not yet seen camo pattern with the unit. The possible small unit code is unusual for the unit at the time though..... Br/Goran

Thanks Peter